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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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comma before JR or SR? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think we are, Enry. But the style choice was made explicitly to run counter to the one chosen by that other database. Which means if we follow the Credit Lookup Tool we would have (1)"inconsistent" data and (2) the possibility of data overlap, which may or may not have the potential for issues to be raised that i try like all you know what to avoid. So, I do wish Ken would simply allow for the stylistic choice in the Rules. All it takes is one line
Suffixes such as Jr. or Sr. are to be formatted as Joe Blow, Jr. This would not include Roman Numeral suffixes as the they are more traditionally handled as Joe Blow III.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | It is one thing to wish he allows it... or even ask him to change his mind... but a totally other thing to do it anyway regardless what he has in his rules... and posted on the forum.
At this point we have what he put in the rules and with the statements he had up till now. Which in no way what so ever supports any kind of standardization/stylization.
Once again... all I am trying to say is I may agree with you that it is a good idea to ask for such a change... but I can in no way support going against the rules or wishes of Ken and do it the way you want just because you are not satisfied with his decision up to this point.
For the online database we have to work with what the rules and/or Ken's statements give us. Anything else would need to be voted down.
I have seen many say that when it comes to the online database you must contribute/vote within the rules or Ken's statements here... but for some reason people want to go away from that for this one. But it doesn't work that way. As with any other rule it is the choice of either doing it per the rules/ken or keeping it local. | | | | Pete |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken? Are you there? The time has come for you to chime in on this one...  I for one would love to put an end to all this. As Skip said: all it takes is one line. |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | For the record: I'm one person who recently submitted a rash of Robert Downey Jr. changes (from Robert Downey, Jr.) purely based on the lookup tool. I was unaware of the previous discussion, and only tried to get Downey's listing in the database to be as uniform as possible by following the rules as I know them. That said, I'd be perfectly happy to withdraw all submissions and change the other half of my Downey movies to include a comma. But as Tim's pointed out, I'm not sure if that would pass a vote. So, a question: If I did as outlined in paragraph two above and included notes where I explain that it is in an effort to sway the credit lookup tool in favour of the comma version of Downey's name, as well as included a link to the thread showing the majority of users wanting the comma version for names like that... do you think it will pass? Cause I'm happy to do it. In the end I just want all Downey movies listed together. I don't really care one way or the other about the comma, as long as the actual credit is included in the "as credited" field should it differ from the name submitted for linking purposes. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
If I did as outlined in paragraph two above and included notes where I explain that it is in an effort to sway the credit lookup tool in favour of the comma version I don't think you would sway the CLT. I gather the CLT is based on Credited Names (that you should always contribute exactly as they are in film credits), not on linking names (that you should contribute according to CLT, but many of us are asking for a standardization in this special case when the only difference between variants is a stylistic choice in punctuation). | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | If it is not going by the look-up tool... and not well documented that the look up tool is wrong then I would have to vote no. We can only go by the existing rules... and Ken's statement. At least until he posts otherwise or makes an exception to the rule. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Unicus:
You are being argumentative. You know as well as i do we have had sveral discussiuons including as I recall one poll whicjh have sttled this along with mosat of these other recent discussions that have come up of late, if people would check into it. But no, we have to cover the same territory every few months. Ye, enry a stylistic choice was made looong ago. Look around. I presume also, unicus, that this references the Alias name situation, if you are talking about whatever is On Screen...you know my answer.
Skip I am not being argumentative...and, please, don't tell me what I know. I know that polls do not trump the rules. I know that forum consensus does not trump the rules. The rules say nothing about 'stylistic choices' so I DO NOT use them. I enter the credits exactly as I see them. Nothing more, nothing less. If I use a common name, I will use the most credited form. With or without the comma, it doesn't matter to me. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
As Pete will no doubt tell you, Enry. As Credited means exactly what it says, now when we move into the world of the Alias (Credited As system) that's something different. If AS CREDITED is not done correctly Credited As can never work, in As Credited the ONLY stylistic choices are those chosen by the filmmakers.
One can attempt to argue whatever one might wish, Enry.
Skip This is my point. 'Credited As' is supposed to be based on the most common 'as credited' name. It is not supposed to be some area where we decide to use whatever we feel is stylistically proper. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
I don't think you would sway the CLT.
I gather the CLT is based on Credited Names (that you should always contribute exactly as they are in film credits), not on linking names (that you should contribute according to CLT, but many of us are asking for a standardization in this special case when the only difference between variants is a stylistic choice in punctuation). If I remember correctly, the credit lookup is based on the 'credited as' name. It is that way because that is what the actor is 'credited as'. So, yes, changing the 'credited as' portion would sway the results. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
... and also said the best way to fix this problem is to get the cast/crew lists fixed per credits to fix the look-up tool. This is what I am doing. At the moment, I am not using 'common names'. Every contribution I make is made based on the end credits. For the most part, I refuse to use the 'credited as' feature until the credits are fixed. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
We have made a similar STYLISTIC choice to list them as Robert Downey, Jr. so there can be NO possible problems in this regard.As I hinted at in my previous post, this was settled loooooong ago. "We" meaning the users have overwhelmingly supported a standard with the comma; however, Ken overruled that and wants "most credited form" instead. Although some of us wanted naming standards, the only standard we can use is the most-credited form from the Invelos lookup, unless the data can be proven to be incorrect. If you use the Invelos lookup, the most credited form will always be the form without the comma. That's because the data is heavily IMDb corrupt. Once everything is as-credited, that will change. This means for now, it's a 2 step process: 1. Enter as-credited for the Credited As name and enter the Credit Lookup result as the name. That name will most likely be the IMDb form without the comma. 2. At some point, the as-credited data will surpass the IMDb data and all of the entries from step 1 will need to be re-done. That's where we are now if one wishes to have name linking today. If you don't, you enter as-credited now and things will link up in the next century. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 | | Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | How about moving the "Jr." to a checkbox?  | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
How about moving the "Jr." to a checkbox?  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,916 |
| | Posted: | | | | Don't forget about Sr, II, III, Esq., etc! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,323 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
We have made a similar STYLISTIC choice to list them as Robert Downey, Jr. so there can be NO possible problems in this regard.As I hinted at in my previous post, this was settled loooooong ago.
"We" meaning the users have overwhelmingly supported a standard with the comma; however, Ken overruled that and wants "most credited form" instead. Although some of us wanted naming standards, the only standard we can use is the most-credited form from the Invelos lookup, unless the data can be proven to be incorrect.
If you use the Invelos lookup, the most credited form will always be the form without the comma. That's because the data is heavily IMDb corrupt.
Once everything is as-credited, that will change.
This means for now, it's a 2 step process:
1. Enter as-credited for the Credited As name and enter the Credit Lookup result as the name. That name will most likely be the IMDb form without the comma.
2. At some point, the as-credited data will surpass the IMDb data and all of the entries from step 1 will need to be re-done.
That's where we are now if one wishes to have name linking today. If you don't, you enter as-credited now and things will link up in the next century. This is exactly it... and how I am currently doing it. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
That's where we are now if one wishes to have name linking today. If you don't, you enter as-credited now and things will link up in the next century. Next century? Being R1 you are an optimist.  | | | | -- Enry |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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