Quoting ninso4:

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How would you tread the credit for Goldstein & Steinberg in the film Tesis?

Since it is questionable as to whether it is allowed or not (is it a joint credit or a company credit?) and  the credit is not mandatory, I would leave it off.  It's OK. No one will be harmed.

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Option 1 unless there is a Production Sound Mixer, then Option 4.

Quoting GSyren:

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Given that, I would go for option 4.

Same here.

Quoting GSyren:

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Quoting Nosferatu:

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I would treat it the same as The Matrix, which is 'written and directed by The Wachowski Brothers'.

There's an important difference. The Wachowski Brothers is afaik not a company name. We know who the two are. When they are credited as such they both worked on the movie.

Goldstein & Steinberg on the other hand does seem to be a company name. We don't know for sure who worked under that credit; both of them, one of them, or someone else. In fact, for the 1996 movie Thesis, IMDb lists Ricardo Steinberg as Goldstein & Steinberg.  Of course, IMDb is far from always correct, but still ...

Given that, I would go for option 4.

If we think it is the name of a company, then that's a different matter and they shouldn't be credited. The names appear on the BFI database, though without any other details to elaborate on whether the names indicate two people or a company.

Until we know that the name reflects two people in the sound department, then it's safer to go with option 4.

Quoting ninso4:

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But there is another question whether this credit should be entered into the database at all.
In another Spanish film Abre los ojos this credit appears:



The S.L. at the and indicates that Goldstein & Steinberg isn't just those two sound editor but a company. We do not credit companies in the crew section (apart from group dividers).
The credit in Tesis doesn't have the S.L. at the end but it also could be a credit for the company.

You forgot to mention there was another SOUND credit for "Goldstein & Steinberg" (no S.L. suffix) in Abre los ojos.

So we have these credits in the one film:
Sound ==> Goldstein & Steinberg
Sound Editor ==> Goldstein & Steinberg, S.L.

The film's credits clearly distinguished which one is a company name, and that is reflected in both BFI and IMDB records for Daniel Goldstein and Ricardo Steinberg (sound credit but NO sound editor credit (the actual sound editors were Nacho Royo and Pelayo Gutiérrez).

Option 4 is not a valid option because there was no basis for connecting the company name ("Goldstein & Steinberg, S.L.") with the individual credit ("Goldstein & Steinberg") to begin with, had the full facts about the film's credits been provided.

I treat "Goldstein & Steinberg" no differently to say, Rodgers & Hammerstein" or "Boyce & Hart" or "Scott and Dyer", it is a credit for individuals.

The film Tesis (aka "Thesis) used the same credits for sound as Abre los ojos, and that is why I voted for option 1.

Quoting ObiKen:

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Quoting ninso4:

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But there is another question whether this credit should be entered into the database at all.
In another Spanish film Abre los ojos this credit appears:



The S.L. at the and indicates that Goldstein & Steinberg isn't just those two sound editor but a company. We do not credit companies in the crew section (apart from group dividers).
The credit in Tesis doesn't have the S.L. at the end but it also could be a credit for the company.

You forgot to mention there was another SOUND credit for "Goldstein & Steinberg" (no S.L. suffix) in Abre los ojos.

So we have these credits in the one film:
Sound ==> Goldstein & Steinberg
Sound Editor ==> Goldstein & Steinberg, S.L.

The film's credits clearly distinguished which one is a company name, and that is reflected in both BFI and IMDB records for Daniel Goldstein and Ricardo Steinberg (sound credit but NO sound editor credit (the actual sound editors were Nacho Royo and Pelayo Gutiérrez).

Option 4 is not a valid option because there was no basis for connecting the company name ("Goldstein & Steinberg, S.L.") with the individual credit ("Goldstein & Steinberg") to begin with, had the full facts about the film's credits been provided.

I treat "Goldstein & Steinberg" no differently to say, Rodgers & Hammerstein" or "Boyce & Hart" or "Scott and Dyer", it is a credit for individuals.

The film Tesis (aka "Thesis) used the same credits for sound as Abre los ojos, and that is why I voted for option 1.

I'm not swayed.

If anything, ninso4 argues for the uncertainty of the credit. For the credit to possibly be invalid.
Like GSyren wrote below, we can't simply know.

To take the credits from one film as "proof" for the credits in another, is simply outrageous. And naturally against the rules.

We don't have "Sound Editor ==> Goldstein & Steinberg, S.L." in Tesis, which is the movie in question.

For those voting for option 1, where's your proof?
Or do you vote 1 just because it looks neat and/or you don't want to omit the credit?

It's not at all "clear" that just because the credits for Tesis doesn't include the company suffix, that it isn't a company. At the very least, documentation is needed.

Perhaps if there's anyone with more time on their hands they could do some digging.
It's a quite well-known movie so I don't think it would be impossible.
If we just look at the current situation though, I think there's more reason to assume it's a company rather than not. Since we don't know. And, the poll for option 4 is in majority anyway.

Quoting MikaLove:

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I'm not swayed.

Please refer to the Spanish GOYA Awards for Best Sound and pay attention to the 11th Goya Awards in 1997.

You will find both Daniel Goldstein and Ricardo Steinberg won the GOYA Award for Best Sound in the film Tesis.

Accepting the GOYA Award video

In addition, you will find Daniel Goldstein and Ricardo Steinberg were nominated for the GOYA Award for Best Sound in the film Abre los ojos at the 13th GOYA Awards.

The screen credit "Goldstein & Steinberg, S.L." is an erroneous credit, as no such company name existed when Abre los ojos (aka "Open Your Eyes") was released in 1997.

According to Spanish company registration records, the pair created the following companies:

•  DANIEL GOLDSTEIN & RICARDO STEINBERG S.L.
Company Number (CIF): B78270691, Incorporated: 16-Apr-1986, Jurisdiction: Madrid.
(original name: DANIEL GOLDSTEIN & RICARDO STEINBERG S.A.)
The company was placed into voluntary liquidation by Daniel Moises Goldstein and Ricardo Scherbovsky Steinberg on 28-Jul-2004.
The company extinction occurred on 24-Feb-2006.

•  GOLDSTEIN Y STEINBERG S.L.
Company Number (CIF): B83288357, Incorporated: 16-Apr-2002, Jurisdiction: Madrid.
Changed name to FORO SONORO PRODUCCIONES SL on 01-Dec-2005, sole administrator: Ricardo Scherbovsky Steinberg.