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Change Production Year to Copyright Year
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
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Quoting hal9g:
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If we re-purpose the existing field to be "Copyright Date", aren't we going to have to recheck every profile to see if the Copyright date is what's in that profile?

Why not leave that data alone as we already know that it is the "Theatrical Release Date" and create a new field for "Copyright"? 

I suspect you'll find as many if more people are actually interested in the "Theatrical Release Date" than the "Copyright Date".


Although I don't mind the addition of the field, the problem is that a lot of people have already admitted that they use the copyright year in the current field rather than find the true release date. So it sounds like the current field is full of inaccurate data anyway.


Agreed, but perhaps having two specific fields for CY and TRY will make users enter the appropriate data, while now on the contrary many people use CY or TRY interchangeably, on the (not always true) assumption that they are the same year anyway!
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
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The Copyright Date the film was Originally Copyrighted does NOT change. It is part of the film. I don't recall seeiing any distributor change the Copyright date on the film, even despite a restoration, which enables them to re-copyright the film and they may not be the original copyright holder. You will see references to new Copyright information on the Case, but not on the film. Their maybe some public domai prints that do not use that particular part of the film, but then some of those remove the credit data altogether.

Skip


And what if some movie wins an award for say, Best Picture, in 2006, but it has a copyright date of 2001 - and that wouldn't be unheard of.  Anybody that puts down 2001 as the correct date is out to lunch.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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John, there is NO perfect answer, and no one is going to be ever be 100% satisfied, and there is no way to allow for every oddball that Hollywood throws at us. Your example is correct but it is also exceedingly rare. It would seem than on the basis of TWO factors; (1)The copyright date is easily obtainable by ALL users and it comes from the film source and (2) the FACT that Theatrical can be very problematic with conflicting information from different sources, that the Copyright Date is the best answer for the Online.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hydr0x:
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Quoting hal9g:
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Quoting skipnet50:
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OK, let me make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, I think probably the best answer is to use Copyright Date PERIOD. That is data that is readily available to ALL users and requires no additional research, especially research which is often conflicting from source to source. <shakes head>

Skip


If we re-purpose the existing field to be "Copyright Date", aren't we going to have to recheck every profile to see if the Copyright date is what's in that profile?

Why not leave that data alone as we already know that it is the "Theatrical Release Date" and create a new field for "Copyright"? 



In theory that's correct according the current rules. But that poll which I think was already linked in this thread clearly shows that a majority already seems to be using the copyright date anyways. Which makes your argument work the opposite way as apparently more people have currently correct data with "Copyright Year" than with "Theatrical Release Year".


IF people have been doing this, it has been against the Rules, sicne they were never changed to state that we should be using Copyright date.
Hal
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
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Quoting skipnet50:
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The Copyright Date the film was Originally Copyrighted does NOT change. It is part of the film. I don't recall seeiing any distributor change the Copyright date on the film, even despite a restoration, which enables them to re-copyright the film and they may not be the original copyright holder. You will see references to new Copyright information on the Case, but not on the film. Their maybe some public domai prints that do not use that particular part of the film, but then some of those remove the credit data altogether.

Skip


And what if some movie wins an award for say, Best Picture, in 2006, but it has a copyright date of 2001 - and that wouldn't be unheard of.  Anybody that puts down 2001 as the correct date is out to lunch.


The fact that it won an award in 2006 has absolutely nothing to do with when it was produced (copyrighted)!
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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When creating the Awards files (mainly for the Academy Awards lists) I even saw a few movies that were nominated in two consecutive years...
Achim [諾亞信; Ya-Shin//Nuo], a German in Taiwan.
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
The Copyright Date the film was Originally Copyrighted does NOT change. It is part of the film. I don't recall seeiing any distributor change the Copyright date on the film, even despite a restoration, which enables them to re-copyright the film and they may not be the original copyright holder. You will see references to new Copyright information on the Case, but not on the film. Their maybe some public domai prints that do not use that particular part of the film, but then some of those remove the credit data altogether.

Skip

And what if some movie wins an award for say, Best Picture, in 2006, but it has a copyright date of 2001 - and that wouldn't be unheard of.  Anybody that puts down 2001 as the correct date is out to lunch.


The fact that it won an award in 2006 has absolutely nothing to do with when it was produced (copyrighted)!


Baloney.  We're talking about theatrical release date vs. copyright date.  I don't give a fig what the field is called.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
Quote:

IF people have been doing this, it has been against the Rules, sicne they were never changed to state that we should be using Copyright date.


Hal, it doesn't matter whether it's against the rules or not. It's a fact (according the poll) that a majority does it, and as such it's the "easier" route to go.

On a sidenote, IF we get a real theatrical release date field, why restrict ourselves to the year? All sources reliable enough (are there any? I have my doubts, sound a lot like everyone's using IMDB for this to me) to get the release year usually list the exact premiere date. That would at least allow perfect sorting in order of their "release".
- Jan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
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Quoting hydr0x:
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Quoting hal9g:
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IF people have been doing this, it has been against the Rules, sicne they were never changed to state that we should be using Copyright date.


Hal, it doesn't matter whether it's against the rules or not. It's a fact (according the poll) that a majority does it, and as such it's the "easier" route to go.

On a sidenote, IF we get a real theatrical release date field, why restrict ourselves to the year? All sources reliable enough (are there any? I have my doubts, sound a lot like everyone's using IMDB for this to me) to get the release year usually list the exact premiere date. That would at least allow perfect sorting in order of their "release".


Those who frequent these forums and respond to polls are a minuscule minority of users.  We should not use the results of that poll as a determinant of the state of the data base.  And we certainly shouldn't use it to circumvent the Rules.
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgoodguy
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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I wouldn't change anything. The term Production Year leaves anough ambiguity to use the more popular date if there is a difference between copyright year and theatrical release year. If we talk about a specific movie, most people will probably instantly agree on which date that is. It is only the attempt at generalization that leads to these longwinded discussions.

I also see no benefit in an additional field for one exact release date. IMDb usually lists a bunch of them, distinguishing not only between various countries, but also between festivals, limited and wide releases. That, in its entity, is useful information, a single exact date is not.

I feel kinda strange for seeming to agree with Rifter on this one.
Matthias
 Last edited: by goodguy
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantVibroCount
The Truth is Silly Putty
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Quoting skipnet50:
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John, there is NO perfect answer, and no one is going to be ever be 100% satisfied, and there is no way to allow for every oddball that Hollywood throws at us. Your example is correct but it is also exceedingly rare. It would seem than on the basis of TWO factors; (1)The copyright date is easily obtainable by ALL users and it comes from the film source and (2) the FACT that Theatrical can be very problematic with conflicting information from different sources, that the Copyright Date is the best answer for the Online.

Skip


This.

This makes sense. It is usable. It can be confirmed easily. And only film where they've grabbed credits from earlier or later versions of the film when edited for DVD will it be inaccurate (i.e. The Big Sleep 1945 version). But again, this is comfirmable information, without having conflicting outside sources.

Now, if only the field was titled "Copyright Year" rather than "Production Year" and the rule altered to fit this much more easy to find and confirm date.
If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.

Cliff
 Last edited: by VibroCount
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
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Quoting hal9g:
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Those who frequent these forums and respond to polls are a minuscule minority of users.  We should not use the results of that poll as a determinant of the state of the data base.  And we certainly shouldn't use it to circumvent the Rules.


They are only a small part of all users, yes, but not a small part of contributors, especially not of contributors doing full audits (haven't seen year changes outside of full audits). In fact I'd say over 90% of the full audits in my locality are done by forum members.
- Jan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorhal9g
Who is John Galt?
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting hydr0x:
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Quoting hal9g:
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Those who frequent these forums and respond to polls are a minuscule minority of users.  We should not use the results of that poll as a determinant of the state of the data base.  And we certainly shouldn't use it to circumvent the Rules.


They are only a small part of all users, yes, but not a small part of contributors...


Do you have some statistics to back up this assertion?
Hal
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting skipnet50:
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John, there is NO perfect answer, and no one is going to be ever be 100% satisfied, and there is no way to allow for every oddball that Hollywood throws at us. Your example is correct but it is also exceedingly rare. It would seem than on the basis of TWO factors; (1)The copyright date is easily obtainable by ALL users and it comes from the film source and (2) the FACT that Theatrical can be very problematic with conflicting information from different sources, that the Copyright Date is the best answer for the Online.

Skip



Am I the only one who doesn't seem to have a problem finding the correct Theatrical Release year?  In all honesty, I don't see this as that big a problem - at least not enough of one to warrant all the sturm und drang.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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John:

Now do I need to tell you how much I mistrust many sources.    Especially when research CAN turn up different results. The thing that amazes me is how much better than some of those sources my own personal databanks are DESPITE all the cobwebs.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
John:

Now do I need to tell you how much I mistrust many sources.    Especially when research CAN turn up different results. The thing that amazes me is how much better than some of those sources my own personal databanks are DESPITE all the cobwebs.

Skip


That is as may be.  However, using copyright date leaves a lot of room for error.  For example:  In 1939, 'Gone With the Wind' was best picture.  There were a couple of other movies that nobody ever remembers that came out the same year that were just as good, and they are notable because they lost and GWTW won.  Or, how about 1947, when 'Red River' won for John Wayne, but 'Unconquered' with Gary Cooper (C. B. DeMille's most expensive epic ever) lost out.  What if the copyright date for any of those is different than the year they first played and are famous for?  How in hell can we justify having a different date than 1939 or 1947?  And what about all the cases where some movie was made and sat on the shelf for several years, or even decades before being released?  We both know there are a lot of those floating around out there, some of them are even famous for it.

Copyright year might be easier, but it sure as hell isn't necessarily more accurate.  I'm all for making it easy, but only as long as it doesn't compromise the accuracy of the data.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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