Quoting m.cellophane:

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Skip, the birth year can get into the database from any profile...even ones that you do not have in your personal database; therefore, it's impossible to know at this point whether that birth year was ever documented (not that the rules even call for that level of documentation, but that's another topic  ).

I believe that a birth year appeared in a contribution of mine even though that birth year was not yet in my personal database. I believe it was coming from the Invelos master db.

That is not how I understand how the main database works. I strongly believe, that the main database holds Cast & Crew per profile and not centralized. Other wise spelling variations (capital versus lower case) would always instantly go through and even more, the BY would populate ALL profiles in the database instantaneously, which I think it doesn't. We may have to try this or Ken may correct me.


I see one problem with removal: Once you have the actor with the BY and a profile without the BY comes along, then. if I understood ken correctly, your local database will get a new name added, not the existing BY entry reverted...


Not sure I get this right, but it's all clear in my head!

Quoting m.cellophane:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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Quoting smerryfield:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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It simply falls to us, Achim, to be more demanding and expect users to provide documentation and stop voting yes to anything and everything that comes down the pipe.

Skip

If the birth year is already in the database, wouldn't it also make sense then to require documentation to remove it, since it may have been placed in there legitimately with another contribution, and removing it could harm other profiles?


Trying to find the original source where the birth year was added is an issue.  For example, somehow Lon Chaney Jr. got a birth year added, and I have not been able to figure out where it came from originally -- I did not add it.  However, since it got into my database, I've used it in a couple of recent contributions. In this case, since it's a relatively well-known actor, it's probably safe to remove it.  However, if this was Joe Schmoe who is almost unknown, how would I know whether it's a legitimate use of the birth year?

Smerryfield:

This is new data if a user did not document it than it needs to documneted PERIOD. I am not on ehwo say well if it was accepted then,,,,,yada yada yad. Document the BY,end of topic.

Skip

Skip, the birth year can get into the database from any profile...even ones that you do not have in your personal database; therefore, it's impossible to know at this point whether that birth year was ever documented (not that the rules even call for that level of documentation, but that's another topic  ).

I believe that a birth year appeared in a contribution of mine even though that birth year was not yet in my personal database. I believe it was coming from the Invelos master db.

As I have said James, the discussion is not with me or about me, it is about demanding that users provide documentation for such data and not just insert it into the database by pulling it out of hat. And then demanding that voters PAY ATTENTION to what they are doing and not alloowing unsupported data to be taken to the Online.

Skip

Quoting m.cellophane:

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The way you describe it is how I used to think it was, but I'll look at it closely if I see it again. I don't think I had downloaded ANY updates from the Invelos db before I made a contribution that showed a birth year, but I could be wrong.

Another reason, which I forgot before, is, if the cast and crew were centralized in the main db, Ken could have set up the more direct approach to link them threre; you know, what Skip keeps mentioning.
Name 1 = Name 2 = Name 3

My feeling is he couldn't do that, as they are actually, not linked at all. So a change in one profile cannot be transferred to all other related profiles automatically.

But then, I am not a database engineer and only ken really knows how all that stuff works in DVD Profiler.

Quoting ya_shin:

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That is not how I understand how the main database works. I strongly believe, that the main database holds Cast & Crew per profile and not centralized. Other wise spelling variations (capital versus lower case) would always instantly go through and even more, the BY would populate ALL profiles in the database instantaneously, which I think it doesn't. We may have to try this or Ken may correct me.

You are correct Achim.  The main db stores the actor information for each profile with that profile...there is not master database for actors.  However, when you download a name that has a birth year associated with it, it changes your local actor db.  Let me give you an example...actually the one already used...Lon Chaney Jr..

Let's say, for whatever reason, I have added the birth year to 'Lon Chaney Jr.' making him 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906) in my local db.  I then edit, and upload, the profile for 'Hillbillys in a Haunted House'.  Because of the change in my local db the uploaded profile now has 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906)' as one of the actors.

Now, the way the main db is set up, that actor data is stored with that profile and won't change any other profile in the main db.

Are you with me so far?

If you happen to own 'Hillbillys in a Haunted House', and download my update, the new 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906)' will replace all the 'Lon Chaney Jr.'s in your local db.

Still with me?

Now, say you make a correction to the cast of 'The Wolfman'.  Even though you didn't create 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906)', that data will still be uploaded because that is how it now appears in your local db.

Do we all understand now or have I confused the issue even more? 

Quoting Unicus69:

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Do we all understand now or have I confused the issue even more? 

It appears I was wrong about the existence of a master actor db and that each profile exists separately, but I think I got it:

So I upload Profile A with a new birth year for Actor 1A. I "justify" it. 
You download Profile A which gives you the birth year for Actor 1A in your local db.
You upload Profile B with Actor 1A. You "indicate" that you got it from an accepted change in another profile.
Skip downloads Profile B which gives him the birth year for Actor 1A in his local db.
Skip doesn't have Profile A in his local and therefore has no way to know where the birth year for Actor 1A came from.
And then Skip uploads Profile C with Actor 1A...he "indicates"...and so on.

It then becomes sort of a "six degrees of separation" thing...multiplied. 

Quoting Unicus69:

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Do we all understand now or have I confused the issue even more? 

No, I am with you all the way. That is exactly how I imagined it...

Only thing I am unclear, a little bit, is, if I once had an actor changed to have the BY, and then comes a profile without the BY, will the entry get changed back or the other one be added? I think Ken mentioned it somewhere and I remember him saying something about a sequence how the local checking is done, not sure if I can find that again.

So, let's say my 'Lon Chaney Jr.' gets changed to 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906)'. Then I download a profile with only 'Lon Chaney Jr.' in it. After that, will I have both entries in my local actor database or will
a) 'Lon Chaney Jr.' get merged with the other one
b) 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906)' get reverted back to 'Lon Chaney Jr.'
c) I have 'Lon Chaney Jr. (1906)' and 'Lon Chaney Jr.' now.

I think it should be c, as the 1906 was put there for e a reason and by doing a or b the program wold somewhat defy it's own ability to have multiple actors with the same name... So we'll have to be careful with this for a while, as to not to break our local linking.

Quoting m.cellophane:

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So of your multiple choices, it appears the answer is (a) that if you have Lon Chaney Jr. (2006) and you download a Lon Chaney Jr., it will match them together resulting in one actor in your db of Lon Chaney Jr. (2006). 

Thanks for finding that.

I think it does make sense though, actually... Feeling better now

Quoting Voltaire53:

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Quoting Gadgeteer:

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As I've stated previously, I don't see what harm this data can do anyway.

FWIW I agree... and further to my "the Genie is out of the bottle" post, it's also going to stop people who like adding Birth Year locally contributing any cast fixes in future which is a shame.

Maybe a future version of the program should have a 'strip birth years for contribution' option so if someone who has birth years locally finds an error they can fix it in the main Db.

Maybe I misunderstood what Ken said, but if you strip the BYs and contributed a profile and one of the actors is in the main database and your local database with a BY would it not strip it from both?  Which could also lead to people voting NO for stripping a BY of an aexisting actor without documentation.

EDIT:  NM I think I got it.  It will just keep the BY for said actor.  But what if the profile has a different BY, would it create a different entry in your local cast database?  Ok... I am confused again.  Ignore me.

Of course Ken can also come along and say add BY for everyone (which would take time and be  a pain), but could make things easier in the future.  Also you would have to do it document it which also would be hard at times. 

Personally, as long as I can click on a name and have it bring up the correct movies the person is in, I am happy.