Quoting johnd:

Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:

Quote:


If LOTR should be considered a New Zealand production, why was it nominated (and subsequently won) numerous Academy Awards all in the the domestic categories, and none in the Foreign Film category?

When has the Academy Awards ever had anything to do with artistic expression? Just another case of American imperialism. "This is good, so it must be made in the good old US of A."

Is it at all possible to make your point without taking shots at another country? 

Quoting Battling Butler:

Quote:


But your comments are nonetheless highly offensive and completely out of line.

As is the attempt to attribute the artistic output of one country to another based purely on money. I know to some people money can buy everything, but that is rather a sad view of life.

Quoting Unicus69:

Quote:


Keep telling yourself that.  I guess it makes you feel good about yourself to take a shot at a country, which you clearly did, and then pretend you didn't do it.  I will keep this in mind whenever I read your posts in the future. 

OK. Do I like America as a political and social entity? No, of course not, just as most of the world does not at the moment. Do I like Americans as a people? Generally, yes, though there are, of course, some exceptions. The action of attempting to claim "ownership" over something produced by someone else does not improve that perception. It might seem minor, but it happens far too often to let it go uncommented on.

Also, it seems, somehow, incredibly trivial - "We have so much, but it just isn't enough."

Quote:

Why would I have a guilty concience?  I actually came to the same conclusion that you did.  However, I based my conclusion on the history of the film project and didn't need to insult any individual or country to get my point across. 

I'm not surprised you are confused. After putting forward the same argument, I am told it is all about money, nothing else. A reflection on a sad state of affairs. If you feel that I am insulting America as a whole, then it seems that there is some underlying guilt about the current state of affairs in that country. Sorry, I can't help you with that guilt.

Personally, I would like to see COO disappear, as it offers no real value if it is going to be misused in this way.

This is just my opinion but it's not about who had the most to do with getting the film made and certainly not about money. It's country of ORIGIN not country of prduction. A lot of the money would have come from bank loans and those banks would have reviewed their investment almost as much as a production company they have nothing to do with country of origin.
Origin is where a film starts. If a group of people are commisioned by a company to make a film then thats when the film originates and the country of the commisioning company is the country of origin, if a group of people or companies put together a film project then pitch that to a company to get the money then that company is not the country of origin it's the group who put the project together.

Quoting Battling Butler:

Quote:
If LOTR should be considered a New Zealand production, why was it nominated (and subsequently won) numerous Academy Awards all in the the domestic categories, and none in the Foreign Film category?

Because the Foreign Film category is actually called "Film in a Foreign Language".
Interesting that you assume that all the other categories are "domestic".

Because Pan's Lanbyrinth won the Oscar for Art Direction, does that now make it a US film?

Quoting pompel9:

Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:

Quote:
Quoting johnd:

Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:

Quote:
When has the Academy Awards ever had anything to do with artistic expression? Just another case of American imperialism. "This is good, so it must be made in the good old US of A."

That's pure B.S. I never implied anything of the kind, and neither did anyone else on this forum. I'll be the first to state that the current Bush administration is one of the most imperialistic in the history of the world. But your comments are nonetheless highly offensive and completely out of line.  My point is that the country of New Zealand did not enter LOTR as a nominee in the Foreign Movie category.

I maintain that the country of the primary studio releasing a film should be persuasive as to the CoO

Yes, but New Line didn't produce the movie. Wingnut did. New Line just came with the money.

Several of the credited Executive Producers of LOTR are indeed New Line representatives; Mark Ordesky, Michael Lynne and Robert Shaye....

To suggest that the company providing the money to make a film is not the producing company is proposterus to say the least - check your facts Pompel.

And furthermore - to get back on the topic - we need a common ground to base our contributions on, it is fairly evident that there are lots of different opinions as to which country deserves the CoO credit, but personally I tend to agree with those who suggest using the company first credited as the CoO. (That would leave LOTR as USA CoO) 

Quoting johnd:

Quote:
Quoting Rifter:

Quote:

True.  Peter Jackson went to New Line and pitched the movie.  New Line hired Jackson and Wingnut to do it.  They provided the money, without which it wouldn't have been made - certainly not the masterpiece we got at any rate!  So definitely a US production.

Definitely a New Zealand production. Artistic vision is everything. The money could have come from anywhere.

But it didn't, did it?  I don't give a damn one way or the other.  Who actually does the work is irrelevant.  The guy that pays the freight can hire anybody he wants to, be it local, regional, or international.  He pays the bills, he calls the shots, HIS company gets the credit.  In this case, that is New Line, which is US.

Quoting johnd:

Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:

Quote:


Keep telling yourself that.  I guess it makes you feel good about yourself to take a shot at a country, which you clearly did, and then pretend you didn't do it.  I will keep this in mind whenever I read your posts in the future. 

OK. Do I like America as a political and social entity? No, of course not, just as most of the world does not at the moment. Do I like Americans as a people? Generally, yes, though there are, of course, some exceptions. The action of attempting to claim "ownership" over something produced by someone else does not improve that perception. It might seem minor, but it happens far too often to let it go uncommented on.

Also, it seems, somehow, incredibly trivial - "We have so much, but it just isn't enough."

Quote:

Why would I have a guilty concience?  I actually came to the same conclusion that you did.  However, I based my conclusion on the history of the film project and didn't need to insult any individual or country to get my point across. 

I'm not surprised you are confused. After putting forward the same argument, I am told it is all about money, nothing else. A reflection on a sad state of affairs. If you feel that I am insulting America as a whole, then it seems that there is some underlying guilt about the current state of affairs in that country. Sorry, I can't help you with that guilt.

Personally, I would like to see COO disappear, as it offers no real value if it is going to be misused in this way.

Oh, for pity's sake, get over yourself.  Why don't we all gather and have a group hug, and a good cry at the fact that money is what makes the world go round.

You can rant and rave and knash your teeth, and bemoan the state of artistic endeavor in the world all you want to, but when push comes to shove, its the guys with the bucks who call the shots.  Most directors have pet projects that they want to do just for the sake of the artistic value, and most of them wait for years or even decades before they get to do them.  The movie business is just that - a huge business - and businesses run on money.  Those who have it move ahead and invest and hope to make more for their stockholders.  Those who don't run around begging to borrow it from those who do.  And if they get the money, they have to accept conditions under which it is given, such as who owns the film, who gets the credit for making it, etc.  That's the way it works, and has since day one.

And, as I said, I couldn't care less what the country of origin is, so don't even try to go down that road.