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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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Game Consoles.....The good, the bad, and the ugly |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
It may have been implied to you, but nobody I know...that purchased the game...thought it was going to be in HD. I don't know who you have been talking to, but nobody I know even complained that it wasn't in HD. Everybody I know is enjoying the game. This sure sounds like a bunch of FUD to me. No one said the game couldn't be enjoyable. It's more of what they already enjoyed in the first place. The owners are getting less for their money and being deceived. People wouldn't let Sony get away with this sort of behavior, so why let MS do it? Quote:
First, I never said it makes sense...yet another reason why I haven't upgraded. Second, better graphics and performance don't automatically equal HD. That is an assumption you made. It seems that assumption was wrong. But, it DOES make sense. The MAIN reason people are buying Wii is because of the motion controlled play. The "innovative play" made people overlook the graphics. Take away the Wii-mote and the Wii would be a distant 3rd right now. Otherwise, most look for better graphics in a next-gen console. Quote:
Yes, this goes back to our last conversation about the PS2's vast library of games vs the Xbox's minimal library. I can honestly say that I didn't want to play a single PS2 exclusive. I got the Xbox for very specific games. It is the same situation here. While some games have made me take a second look, none of them have made me pry open my wallet. The fact that you can't understand that is just bizarre. So...you DON'T understand where I'm coming from. I don't think I'm capable being any clearer than that analogy. If I come up with clearer analogy, I'll post it. Quote:
I don't disagree.   | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | SCEA creates in-game advertising group, keeps Home freeQuote:
How does Sony manage to keep stuff like Home free? Seems they decided to create a new in-game advertising business unit to assist in the cost and upkeep of the new "virtual space". Darlene Kindler was appointed to be in charge of the in-game advertising strategies, along with the partnership with Nielsen Media Research from July. As revealed in a recent job posting, in-game advertising is something Sony's serious about. The two companies will share network data from our PS3's and the PSN and work advertising into our virtual lives.
What can we expect? Just about any sort of "dynamic, relevant advertisements" you can think of. SCEA will make sure they're just like ads in real life -- billboards, posters, images on shopping bags or soda cans, things on your TV, and more. While this is a neat concept, we don't know how well it'll actually work. Sure, we could customize our avatar to drink Coca-Cola, but will that really make us want to go buy some? Who knows. Still, promotions like those will undoubtedly let free PSN services thrive. Sounds good to me. RUMOR: Parasite Eve and Konami and bears, oh my!Quote:
Konami and Hideo Kojima might be working on another PS3 exclusive, first off. We know what you're thinking, but no, supposedly the game is not the third Zone of the Enders title. We wish we had any more to say, but that's all we know. Secondly, long time fans of the amazing and amazingly under-appreciated Parasite Eve titles cried foul when it turned out a new game was being made exclusively for mobile phones. Square Enix is apparently listening to these cries and have begun work on a console version, though the consoles it will appear on is unknown. We don't see why they wouldn't continue shoving Aya onto Sony platforms -- exclusive or not. Thirdly, bears are frightening, unless qualified by a humorous story. That is all. L.A. Noire Too Big For DVD9?Quote:
Team Bondi must have at least a few people working in their Ultimo, Sydney office, according to a tip we received over the weekend pointing us to a blog with "exclusive" information on the title. From the post:
* The game will be a free-roaming title with a historically-accurate recreation of Los Angeles in 1947.
* Team Bondi has even hired a costume designer to research the clothing of the era so the game's attire can be accurate.
* Aside from main story, side missions will be based on actual cases pulled straight of the newspapers of 1947.
* A US Marine plays a big role in the story.
* Not so exclusive...but LA Noire definitely ain't coming to Xbox 360, the size of the game is an obstacle to this.
It's only a few tidbits, but it's more than we had before. Of note is that another developer is finding DVDs to be too small. I expect more of the same next year. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Gabe Newell calls the PS3 "a waste of everyone's time". Quote:
Newell continued, saying, "Investing in the Cell, investing in the SPE gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created. I don't think they're going to make money off their box. I don't think it's a good solution." Bit harsh, but he knows much more about game development than any of us (especially you-know-who!). |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,918 |
| | Posted: | | | | I just finished Halo 3 after what seemed like maybe 6-8 hours of game play. It seems like the game is a lot shorter than the previous two versions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 793 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
I just finished Halo 3 after what seemed like maybe 6-8 hours of game play. It seems like the game is a lot shorter than the previous two versions. Normal, they just followed the modern tendency. Give a decent single player, even if it's a bit short, but focus on multiplayer.  I hate that! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,136 |
| | Posted: | | | | Link hereCostly PS3 sees Capcom switch to Wii No comment is made by me | | | Signature? We don't need no stinking... hang on, this has been done... blast [oooh now in Widescreen]
Ah... well you see.... I thought I'd say something more interesting... but cannot think of anything..... oh well
And to those of you who have disabled viewing of these signature files "hello" (or not) Registered: July 27, 2004 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting stefc: Quote:
Gabe Newell calls the PS3 "a waste of everyone's time".
Quote:
Newell continued, saying, "Investing in the Cell, investing in the SPE gives you no long-term benefits. There's nothing there that you're going to apply to anything else. You're not going to gain anything except a hatred of the architecture they've created. I don't think they're going to make money off their box. I don't think it's a good solution."
Bit harsh, but he knows much more about game development than any of us (especially you-know-who!). I wonder if ANYONE remembers the type of crap said about the PS2 when it came out. It's been pretty much the same stuff from last gen, but MS has more media influence this time. Despite this the PS3 has now sold more than the PS2 within the same period of time. The BIG PS3 proven game sellers haven't even come out yet. I should write down these people's email information and send them an email in 12 to 15 months. Did you know that the PS2 sold 20 million consoles from the release of MGS and FF during one holiday season?  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I should write down these people's email information and send them an email in 12 to 15 months. gaben@valve.com (that really is his email address) Please do email the MD of one of the biggest game developers in the world and tell him what he said was "crap", and do come back and post the conversation here!!!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting stefc: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
I should write down these people's email information and send them an email in 12 to 15 months.
gaben@valve.com (that really is his email address)
Please do email the MD of one of the biggest game developers in the world and tell him what he said was "crap", and do come back and post the conversation here!!! If I remember, I will. Remember, this is the guy who said Direct X 10 sucks, Xbox 360 sucks, and now this. He's just a lazy developer. He just complains when it's time to adapt to something new. Google it. You'll see. EDIT: Adding links to Gabe's comments. DirectX 10 was a mistake. Valve hates the Mac. Half Life on Xbox was a disappointment. Xbox 360 Makes My Life Worse. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | COD4 Preview: "...PS3 version definitely excel over the Xbox 360 SKU."An except from the article: Quote:
Still, as strong as Call of Duty 4 is shaping up to be in the gameplay department, the most immediately impressive aspect is by far its graphics. The PC, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 versions all look surprisingly similar, but that's not due to one platform being the lead; Infinity Ward personally assured us that development occurred simultaneously on all three platforms, and that there wasn't a base system. With that said, the console similarities end when it comes to textures, lighting and resolutions, because those three areas make the PlayStation 3 version definitely excel over the Xbox 360 SKU. Regardless, every console owner will proudly use Call of Duty 4 to showcase their high-definition TV, because COD4 is by far the best-looking console game you will see this year. They have a lot of details about the game in the article, but I had to point that part out due to all the crap floating around the internet about the PS3. Anyway, I suggest everyone read the FULL article. It got me hyped up even more about this title!  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Real Time Ray-Tracing May Replace GPU RasterizationQuote:
Real Time Ray-Tracing is a very promising and efficient video rendering technique that could replace today's reasterization algorithms powered by the GPUs and CPUs.
Ray-tracing Vs Rasterization
In rasterization technique, which is currently applied in video games, all the objects of a 3d scene are made from geometric structures with the basic building block of a triangle. By stringing together vast chains of triangles, you can build spheres, cylinders, blocks, and just about any other structure. And with the tools available to game artists today, you can use triangles to build very detailed objects, including people. In the raster pipeline, these triangles go through a number of steps in which each triangle - one at a time - is analyzed, plotted, colored, lighted, textured, and painted on the screen. The end result is a fully realized 3D scene, and today, some very convincing special effects can be added through the use of "shaders", which are basically special programs written to change the way the render pipeline draws particular pieces of the scene. Today, rasterized video games offload some of the computational work by employing Graphics Processing Units, or GPUs.
Ray-tracing, on the other hand, models a scene in terms of the rays of light that pass from each pixel into the eye of the viewer, rather than on the basis of triangles. The scene still contains many triangles, but this "geometry" is abstracted into data structures that resemble "trees". In other words, you can travel along the trunk of the tree, onto smaller and smaller branches, until finally arriving at the "leaves", which allows the overall complexity of the scene to be broken down into simpler and simpler pieces.
This adds a level of efficiency to the rendering mechanism that can make it very efficient.
Ray-tracing expert Daniel Pohl demonsrtated at last months Intel Developer Forum, his port of the Quake IV video game to Intel's real time ray-tracer. (more information is available here,PC Perspective Article).
Daniel?s Quake IV demonstration required no video card interaction from the GPU, and instead only used the video card to send the image to the monitor. This is because Daniel's demo system had eight x86 cores, a configuration that is destined to become mainstream in a few years. And, because the ray-tracing algorithm scales so well with CPU cores, it doesn?t need the assistance of the GPU in order to get the same performance.
According to the PC Perspectives article, Daniel?s game reached almost 100 frames per second at 1024x1024 resolution. Note that as the resolution increases, the computation will spend more time tracing light rays for those additional pixels, and the frame rate will go down. To think that a PC with 8 cores can run a game like Quake IV without the use of a GPU, at high definition resolution and fluid frame rates, is impressive to say the least.
Ray-tracing is a workload that gets near perfect scaling the more cores you add, wrote in his blog Jeffrey Howard, Technology Strategist in Intel?s Microprocessor Technology Labs. Intel has simulated with up to 16 cores, and has already seen more than 15x scaling, he added.
Besides being able to play games without a GPU, ray-tracing enables certain kinds of special effects that are either too complex, too time consuming, or too computational to implement in a rasterized environment. This is because ray-tracing physically models the correct way that light rays travel through a scene, while raster environments simply shade triangles based on approximations derived from vertex, pixel, and texture properties.
Hollywood is already using ray-tracing engines when they make special effects for films and in-game movies. However, it takes hours to fully compute each individual frame. These offline computations are very exact and time consuming, but breakthroughs in the way Intel has designed our ray-tracing engine may allow some of these special effects to happen in real time, while playing a video game.
Intel believes that in a few years, CPUs may even have the core counts and capabilities to enable effects such as Global Illumination - long sought as the Holy Grail of real time rendering. People were trying to fault Sony for having a GPU solution contracted out at the last minute for the PS3. THIS is what Sony was after, but the software side was progressing too slowly. Look at the difference in the pictures via the link provided. That's the bleeding edge of technology, people! Since Sony has PLENTY of time to get the Cell's price of production down, I think we will see 2 Cell processors in the PS4 (45nm scale and 8th SPE enabled, of course) with NO Nvidia or ATI GPU. That's 16 SPEs ready for action. Maybe 8 to 10 SPEs will do real time ray-tracing at resolutions above 1080p and 5 to 7 SPEs could be used for physics, AI, etc. Maybe in another 5 or 6 years the PS4 should be introduced. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sony sell PS3 chip production facility to Toshiba.Xbox 360 Tops Console Sales in September and outsells PS3 5:1Quote:
NPD reported that in the US, Xbox 360 was the #1 console for the month; outselling PS3 5:1
Xbox 360 sales built upon its growth from last month, showing a 50 percent increase for the month of September selling an average of 105,600 consoles per week. Total sales were more than 528,000 Xbox 360 consoles sold, compared to 501,000 for Wii and 119,000 for PS3.
PS3 sales posted an average weekly decline of 27 percent.
Xbox 360 software revenue at retail outsold PS3’s software portfolio 8:1 and Wii’s 4:1, selling 3 times more than both platforms combined.
For the month of September according to NPD, Xbox 360 software represented 74 percent of total software sales for the next generation market compared to 17 percent for Wii and 9 percent for PS3. Even without the sales of “Halo 3” the Xbox 360 portfolio outsold the PS3 portfolio 2:1. From Joystiq, September NPD numbers: Quote:
Hardware:
* Microsoft Xbox 360: 527.8K (6.8 million total)
* Nintendo Wii: 501K (4.5 million total)
* Nintendo DS: 495.8K (13.2 million total)
* Sony PlayStation 2: 215K (39.3 million total)
* Sony PSP: 284.5K (8.6 million total)
* Sony PlayStation 3: 119.4K (1.87 million total)
Software:
1. Halo 3 (all three SKUs - Xbox 360) – 3.3 million
2. Wii Play w/ remote (Wii) – 282K
3. Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS) – 224K
4. Madden NFL 08 (PS2) – 205K
5. Skate (Xbox 360) – 175K
6. Madden NFL 08 (Xbox 360) – 173K
7. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Wii) – 167K
8. BioShock (Xbox 360) – 150K
9. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day (DS) – 141K
10. Heavenly Sword (PS3) – 139K I'm pretty sure the 40GB gimped PS3 isnt going to cause that kind of sales increase, like I've said repeatedly in this thread, its all about games games games, not about resolutions and bluray. Maybe Sony should think about making some 640p games eh, they might be able to shift some more units then? |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | I live in a relatively small town, Yuma, Arizona, and I went out this past weekend looking at the market for both the XBOX360, the Wii, and the PS3. These are the stores I visited... Target, Wal-Mart, Gamestop, EBGames, Sears, Circuit City, and Bestbuy. What I noticed heading into the holiday season is that all these stores have on average (each store) 6-8 PS3 in stock at both price points, however I found only 1 XBOX360 in stock (at Wal-Mart, and there are 3 Wal-Marts here) in the entire town, and I couldn't find any Wii in stock at any local retailers.
I spoke in length with sales associates at Circuit City, Bestbuy and at Gamestop and they all pretty much stated that XBOX360s will be in short supply for the holidays again (at least locally mind you). Each of them said that they will be receiving a shipment in the next week or two but they all expected them not to stay on the shelves for more than a couple of weeks at best. They also stated that the Wii will be the most difficult console to find again this holiday, simply because each of these retailers states they are lucky to get half a dozen consoles in store every 2 weeks or so and they sell out within 24 hours!!!
Luckily I am within 2.5 hours drive to either San Diego, CA or Phoenix, AZ or else I might have a tough time shopping for consoles this Christmas, well unless of course I want a PS3!!! | | | | My Collection!!! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | stefc, Again, it's nice that you are ONLY using US numbers. Most people know Halo 3 is popular in the US. A Halo game might sell 8 or 9 million worldwide. A Gran Turismo game can sell around 14 million worldwide. BTW, the 40GB PS3 is outselling the Wii and the X360 in Europe since it launched. The PS3 has the long-term strategy (8 - 10 year lifecycle). If you're not a short-term thinker, surely you see this is basically the last hoorah for the Xbox 360's glory. Calidain, I loved your anecdotal evidence report from Yuma (they might not even know there is a 40GB PS3 or new Wii SKU coming) on the current and future demand of these gaming consoles. I look forward to more of these reports. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 16, 2007 | | Posts: 405 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well certainly the 40GB PS3s will definitely help sales for SONY, but these retailers locally might still be sitting on those 60GB and 80GB versions left on their retail shelves through the holiday season with the cheaper version hitting the stores.
How is Halo 3 the last hoorah for the XBOX 360??? So what you are saying is that once the Halo 3 popularity wears off, the XBOX 360 will have nothing left to compete with PS3 in say 12 months let alone 8 - 10 years?!? Do you drink heavily before you post and then use spellchecker to fix all the errors, because seriously sometimes you sound really stupid!!! | | | | My Collection!!! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | PS3: The Best Buy for the HolidaysQuote:
In the latest announcement from Sony Computer Entertainment, the U.S. and Canada will now be receiving the 40GB PS3 model bundled with Spiderman 3 BD for USD 399, and the 80GB for the reduced price of USD 499.
With these new changes, consumers must now know that when comparing the three consoles (Xbox 360, PS3, Wii), the PlayStation 3 is the best buy for this X-mas. Not only is it a bang for your buck, but it also offers the best features.
This comparison will go over price, features, and upcoming games for each console. Click the image to view larger version...
As you can see every PlayStation 3 comes with at least 40GB of hard drive space, crucial for game saves, downloadable content, and games requiring HDD for streaming data. Also, every PlayStation 3 comes equipped with Blu-ray disc drives and HDMI outputs to enable users to watch beautiful high definition 1080p movies.
You might say that the Xbox 360 system is also equipped with hard-drives and HDMI outputs but the problem lies in there being no HD format playback built-in. For Xbox gamers to enjoy 1080p movies they must buy an additional HD-DVD add-on at a price of USD 179. Also with the Xbox 360 bragging about its amazing online services, people forget that in order to play without Ethernet, gamers must buy a Wireless adapter for USD 99. Oh, and of course the yearly or monthly Xbox live fee ranging from USD 7.99 for one month to USD 49.99 for a year.
When you add all this up, the premium Xbox 360 (with HD-DVD player, Wireless adapter, and year of Xbox Live) could be costing buyers USD 677 (and people think the PS3 is expensive!)
Now let's talk about the Nintendo Wii. Yes, it is the cheapest console on the market, but for everyone upgrading their TV's to new 720p or 1080p HDTV's people are going to want high definition video. The max the Wii supports is 480p, and with no support for HD-DVD/Blu-ray or even plain DVD playback, the longevity of this console comes into question.
Looking ahead, for those of you wondering what the future holds, here is a quick comparison of upcoming popular titles for each console. (This is not an accurate depiction of all titles of each genre.) Click the image to view full size.
So if you are a gamer without a next gen system or are looking to buy your family a new console this holiday season, we strongly suggest the PlayStation 3. It has all the needed features (Blu-ray/DVD playback, free online service, built-in hard drive) and for the current price it's quite the steal.
Oh, and if you buy your PlayStation 3 before the end of the year, don't forget, the Blu-ray Disc Association is giving away 5 free blu-ray movies for free with purchase of specified BD players (including the PS3).  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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