Since the question came up whether Wardrobe Direction is a valid credit according to the contribution rules I think it's good to know what others think about this.

This was my original post:
Quoting ninso4:

Quote:
The credit for The Day the Earth Stood Still looks like this:

In fact a lot of his credits should be under Wardrobe Direction (according to imdb) which isn't a valid credit according to the contribution rules.
In my opinion all those credits should be invalid.

But there's also this opinion:
Quoting scotthm:

Quote:
Quoting ninso4:

Quote:
In fact a lot of his credits should be under Wardrobe Direction (according to imdb) which isn't a valid credit according to the contribution rules.

Since the credit rules state, "Do include 'Supervising' credits in the above categories", and since a director supervises, I don't see this as being invalid.

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All film that I checked in which Charles LeMaire is credited as Wardrobe Director also have an actual credit for a Costume Designer. So Wardrobe Direction isn't the only costume credit appearing there.

And I always assumed this paragraph from the rules should be taken literally:
Do include "Supervising" credits in the above categories, examples: "Supervising Art Director", "Makeup Supervisor", except where explicity forbidden above.
Which means a Wardrobe Supervisor (or something like that) would be okay, but a Wardrobe Director?

What do you think?

No

Quoting Rutan:

Quote:
Recording Director is now included should we infer Wardrobe Direction be as well?

Your inference has merit. In addition, the rules also has for Visual Effects/Special Effects the qualifier "including Designer, Supervisor and Director".

The costume designer Charles LeMaire was the head of the Twentieth Century-Fox wardrobe department from 1943 to 1959.
He was in charge of designing and producing character/traditional costumes for the studio and would often use the services of additional costume designers to specialize on costumes for certain lead actresses.

Charles LeMaire was nominated sixteen (16) times for Best Costume Design at the Academy Awards:

1950 (23rd):
COSTUME DESIGN (B&W)  - All About Eve [Edith Head, Charles LeMaire] [OSCAR WINNER]
1951 (24th):
COSTUME DESIGN (B&W)  - The Model and the Marriage Broker [Charles LeMaire, Renie]
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - David and Bathsheba [Charles LeMaire, Edward Stevenson]
1952 (25th):
COSTUME DESIGN (B&W)  - My Cousin Rachel [Charles LeMaire, Dorothy Jeakins]
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - With a Song in My Heart [Charles LeMaire]
1953 (26th):
COSTUME DESIGN (B&W)  - The President's Lady [Charles LeMaire, Renie]
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - How to Marry a Millionaire [Charles LeMaire, Travilla]
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - The Robe [Charles LeMaire, Emile Santiago] [OSCAR WINNER]
1954 (27th):
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - Desiree [Charles LeMaire, René Hubert]
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - There's No Business Like Show Business [Charles LeMaire, Travilla, Miles White]
1955 (28th):
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing [Charles LeMaire] [OSCAR WINNER]
COSTUME DESIGN (Color) - The Virgin Queen [Charles LeMaire, Mary Wills]
1956 (29th):
COSTUME DESIGN (B&W)  - Teenage Rebel [Charles LeMaire, Mary Wills]
1957 (30th):
COSTUME DESIGN        - An Affair to Remember [Charles LeMaire]
1958 (31st):
COSTUME DESIGN        - A Certain Smile [Charles LeMaire, Mary Wills]
1959 (32nd):
COSTUME DESIGN (B&W)  - The Diary of Anne Frank [Charles LeMaire, Mary Wills]

and he won three (3) Oscars for BEST COSTUME DESIGN (when credited with "Wardrobe Direction") for the following films:
•  All About Eve
•  The Robe
•  Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing

For example, in the film "All About Eve", LeMaire designed the costumes for Anne Baxter, Celeste Holm, Thelma Ritter, Barbara Bates, and Marilyn Monroe, whilst Edith Head (on loan from Paramount) designed the costumes for Bette Davis. They both shared the Oscar win for best costume design in this film.

The NO vote means he was not a costume designer for the above three Oscar-winning films and seven other nominated films, which is clearly wrong.

Since the Academy recognized his credit (Wardrobe Direction) as a credit for Costume Design, I unhesitatingly voted YES!

The designation of wardrobe director implies a supervisory role in the costumes worn and designed. Rutan is right to draw the parallel with a similar role in the sound department, one we recognise and use without controversy.

In all of his obituaries, he is described as an Oscar-winning costume designer, a description borne out by the recognition from the Academy. As ObiKen's post shows, removing his credits from films for which he won (or was nominated for) Academy Awards for his work as a costume designer would be absurd.

Quoting primetime21:

Quote:
I do find it hard to say, after 34 votes (as of this writing) that with a 3 vote lead we can clearly say Wardrobe Director = Costume Supervisor.

I don't.  I think it's clear that directors are considered supervising roles, e.g. Recording Director and Visual/Digital/Special/Special Visual Effects Director.  The rule does say to, "include 'Supervising' credits in the above categories".  But if you feel such a credit is controversial it's best (IMO) that you not contribute such credits, unless you make clear the actual screen credit in your contribution notes.

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I don't have any problem with those who changed their vote based on new information. It reminds me of the quote “When I find new information I change my mind; what do you do?”

Assuming wardrobe director is an invalid category because it isn't specified in the rules isn't wrong. I would take issue with someone who keeps that opinion when they know that for most publications and accrediting bodies in film during Mr LeMaire's life, wardrobe director = costume director.

As has been said, it's a crying shame we don't have anyone to give a definitive ruling and amend the rules to reflect the Academy for Motion Pictures and Sciences' criteria and to stay consistent with the wording in sound and visual effects departments.

I started this thread because I was not really sure about this credit. I think you can find good arguments for both options and both views are also compatible with the rules with some interpretation.
The fact that Charles LeMaire got Oscar nominations or wins for a few of his credits was not even known at that time, at least not to me.

For the common Name thread I had to decide in some direction. Since there was a clear majority for an invalid credit at that time, I marked these entries as invalid.
Now, of course, we have new information and I think this should be taken into account. It seems that many people here have changed their opinion and the majority is now in favor of a valid credit.
To come back to the original credit:
Wardrobe Director is not listed under the crew roles in the contribution rules. This speaks against a valid credit.
One could argue that a Director falls under the part of the rules that deals with "supervising" credits. Although I would not subscribe to that 100%.

Sometimes Charles LeMaire was also listed as Executive Wardrobe Designer, which I listed as valid. Because at least the title of the designer is present here, which is valid in any case.

In favor of a valid entry is that his films are older films, where the crew entries are nowhere near as formalized as is usually the case with newer films. I think everyone who enters older films into the database knows that it sometimes takes some imagination to enter the crew entries correctly. The rules are based on modern job descriptions. For older and non-English speaking movies, the descriptions usually don't match completely and have to be adjusted to encompass the meaning of the crew roles.
By that logic, I think one can argue for Wardrobe Director as a valid credit.

Charles LeMaire is the only person I've come across with such a credit so far. It seems to be a specific role created just for him. Until now, I had not interpreted this role as having really had anything to do with the costume design of the individual films. But rather as if he had more of a general role.
But since he even got Oscars for this role, it seems like he did work directly on the films after all. In this case I would not reject an entry in the database as a costume designer. What is good enough for the Academy should be good enough for the Invelos database.

I will have a look at the common name thread soon and take this discussion into account when updating the thread next time.

Of course, the best outcome would be an authority that makes a decision on such issues. But that's not going to happen, unfortunately.

Quoting Danae Cassandra:

Quote:
Personally, what I would like to see with a Costume Design credit in the rules would be a note like there is in the Sound credits.

So, to refresh memory, under Sound there is a note "Only use when there's no production sound mixing credit"

What I would like to see would be Wardrobe / Wardrobe by / Wardrobe Supervisor / Wardrobe Director note "Only use when there is no costume design credit."  This seems like it should keep the valid wardrobe credits, but might eliminate the ones where that's the person in charge of keeping up with costumes, rather than the designer.

Of course, even if we wanted to go that direction, we can't since Ken isn't active any more.

In the case of All About Eve, that would deprive Edith Head of her credit in a film for which she won an Oscar.