 |
|
|
|
Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum
rules before posting.
Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free
registration is required.
If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.
|
|
|
|
|
| Invelos Forums->Posts by Magmadrag |
Page:
1  Previous Next
|
| Message |
Details |
Quote:
I do wonder, how many people are actually contributing them?
As far as I know only two... so by this aspect thousands of profiles are kind of "incomplete" as since 2015 there have been more than 150.000 German releases - and I am sure that at load of them is part of our database, too | Posted: Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 9060 |  | Voice dub credits may be included if they are displayed at any time when the film is played with the language matching the profile's locality, even when present in a section distinct from the other credits.
I think that says it all. The only choice I have to do to see them is German language settings. Not anywhere listed as "extras". That they are not part of the end credits might be caused by technical and/or cost reasons: It seems easier to add that clip after the end credits (of any imported movie or series) than to modify the movie itself. Especially then this is kind of a "playlist" only shown with German settings. I have seen some of the French, too, while trying to solve some technical issues, so there might be the French voice actors, too, if I chose French settings.
Some have multiple screens with multiple different locations...5, 6, 7 or more.
I have seen those, too. In this case I'd like to say that it is easier if not cheaper for the companies to put ALL of them to the end credits than to create those different "playlists" for every single language. They do their credits once for the whole world, no matter if there are only 3 languages on the disc, you get the names of 10 and more languages. In this case I never would add them, wouldn't make sense. But after decades of knowing nothing, for me it seems relevant to finally know the names behind the voices I've heard so often.
I still would like to find out if the misspellings are pure lazyness or done under purpose... | Posted: Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 9060 | | Quoting nimbuz:
Quote:
And iirc I haven't seen their names in the credits when I use the english menu option on multi region discs, so they're not even part of the credits.
That's why I wrote that this is kind of a German "problem". But even if you chose German language selection (of releases since 2015) they are not part of the credits. There are "credits after the credits", kind of a short film or diashow after the end titles. And as the rules say "as credted" this only seems for German releases. If you take a look on my collection and just check out the series "Orange is the new Black", you see the HUGE load of voice actors (about 30+ for every single episode).
But their regular misspellings make common names problematic as it is much harder to count the variations. Especially as they are so much! I am just working on "Once upon a Time" - and all 7 seasons has the voice cast for every single episode. Once again with different "spellings" here and there, of the actors as well as of their roles.
And following the way defined by the rules, there is no chance to find a common name for one of them. | Posted: Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 9060 | | To explain this might be a little bit complicated, so I have to jump through the time here and there. And especially as this is mostly a German "problem", I post this thread in German (italic text after every passage), too, just for a better understanding.
Dies zu erklären ist etwas kompliziert, weshalb ich hier und dort etwas durch die Zeit springen muß. Und besonders, da es sich hier größtenteils um ein "Problem" für Deutschland handelt, gibt es diesen Thread um des besseren Verständnisses willen zusätzlich auf Deutsch.
Usually all rules around Profiler are global, the same for every single country, but what happens if just one single country does such a massive change, not relevant for other countries?
Normalerweise gelten alle Regeln rund um Profiler global, die selben für jedes einzelne Land, doch was passiert when ein einzelnes Land eine so massive Veränderung vornimmt, die für andere Länder nicht relevant ist?
At least all the collectors in German speaking countries know that movies and series are synchronized. For a long long time only animated movies/series showed the names of the German voice actors.
Zumindest die Sammler aus den Deutsch sprechenden Ländern wissen, daß Filme und Serien synchronisiert sind. Für sehr lange Zeit wurden die Namen der Synchronsprecher ausschließlich für animierten Filmen/Serien angezeigt.
But then there was a massive change. According to Warner this happened in 2015, other sources say 2018. They did kind of an agreement that from then on every release of DVD/BluRay has to credit the German voice actors.
Aber dann gab es eine massive Änderung. Laut Warner passierte dies 2015, andere Quellen sagen 2018. Eine Übereinkunft wurde getroffen, daß ab diesem Zeitpunkt auf jedem Release von DVD/BluRay die Synchronsprecher in den Credits mit angezeigt werden müssen.
I never got any explanation for a reason of this agreement, but in my opinion it is about money: If your name is shown in the credits, you earn some royalty.
Einen Grund hierfür konnte oder wollte mir niemand nennen, doch meinern Meinung nach geht es hierbei um Geld: Wenn Dein Name in den Credits steht, dann bekommst Du auch Tantiemen.
As now our rules say "as credited", we have countless profiles with kind of incomplete data. If you have stopped typing data at the end of the end credits, you were missing that "short movie" after which shows the voice actors.
Da unsere Regeln nun besagen "wie in den Credits", haben wir unzählige Profile mit mehr oder weniger unvollständigen Daten. Wer beim Abtippen mit dem Ende der End-Titel aufgehört hat, hat den "Kurzfilm" danach verpasst, in dem die Synchronsprecher angezeigt werden.
In this case my problem is not the missing data. I got some problems with the definition of the Common Names. Concerning the voice actors it becomes very special - and endless.
In diesem Fall besteht mein Problem nicht aus den fehlenden Daten. Ich habe jedoch ein Problem mit der Definition der Common Names. In Bezug auf die Synchronsprecher wird es nämlich sehr speziell - und endlos.
The rules define the "Common Name" as the "most used name ever in credits". But: Could this be changed for those voice actors?
Die Regeln definieren den "Common Name" als den "in den Credits am meisten verwendeten Namen". Aber: Kann man das für die Synchronsprecher verändern?
I should have recognized how huge this change is about one year ago when Warner told me of 2015. Then I got the missing seasons of "Supernatural" (where voice actors are released from season 9 - 15) but I was busy with some other stuff.
Eigentlich hätte ich schon vor etwa einem Jahr bemerken müssen, wie groß diese Veränderung ist, als mir Warner etwas von 2015 erzählt hat. Damals hatte ich die fehlenden Staffeln von "Supernatural" erhalten (wo die Synchronsprecher von Staffel 9 - 15 veröffentlicht wurden), doch war ich noch mit anderen Sachen beschäftigt.
The situation nearly escalated during the last couple of weeks when I recieved some more series - each with the voice actors in the "credits after the end credits": "Orange is the new Black" (7 Seasons, 30+ speakers for every single episode), "Grey's Anatomy" (voice actors shown from the first episode to the end), "Gomorrha" (I got season 2 + 3 ans was happy that the agreement was not active yet when season 1 was released).
Vor ein paar Wochen eskalierte die Situation beinahe als ich ein paar weitere Serien erhielt - jede mit Synchronsprechern in den "Credits nach den End Credits": "Orange is the new Black" (7 Staffeln 30+ Synchronsprecher für jede einzelne Episode), "Grey's Anatomy" (Synchronsprcher werden ab der allersten Episode angezeigt), "Gomorrha" (Ich erhielt Staffel 2 + 3 und war froh darüber, daß die Übereinkunft bei Veröffentlichung der ersten Staffel noch nicht aktiv war).
This way I was confronted with countless "variations" (misspellings) of several names, barely able to use always the same name (plus "credited as") for all it's variations.
Auf diesem Wege wurde ich mit unzähligen "Varianten" (Tippfehlern) etlicher Namen konfrontiert, kaum in der Lage, stets den selben Namen (und "credited as") für all seine Varianten zu benutzen.
It became quite horrible! I have a disc with 3 episodes, mostly with the same voice cast, but half of the voice actors have at least 2 if not 3 different spellings on the same disc.
Es wurde ziemlich schrecklich! Da habe ich eine Disc mit 3 Episoden, größtenteils mit den selben Synchronsprechern, aber die Hälfte der Sprecher hat mindestens 2 wenn nicht sogar 3 verschiedene Schreibweisen auf der selben Disc.
Just to list some constant mistakes which don't have those special German letters: Victoria/Viktoria, Cristina/Christina/Kristina, Marie/Maria, with/without a middle vocal or simple letter changes (Reihcmann instead of Reichmann). I can't count them anymore!
Nur um hier ein paar der regelmäßigen Fehler aufzuführen, die keinen der speziellen deutschen Buchstaben beinhalten: Victoria/Viktoria, Cristina/Christina/Kristina, Marie/Maria, mit/ohne einem Mittelvokal oder einfache Buchstabendreher (Reihcmann statt Reichmann). Ich kann sie nicht mehr zählen!
Meanwhile - additionally the series I have allready listed - I did several other seasons of series (e. g. "The Walking Dead", "Fear the Walking Dead") and have a list of some I need to check ("Bones" from Season 10, "The Big Bang Theory" from Season 9, "Vampire Diaries" from Season 6 etc.) and the number of misspellings might be much bigger than the number of correctly written names.
Mittlerweile - zusätzlich zu den bereits genannten Serien - habe ich mich um diverse weitere Staffeln anderer Serien gekümmert (z. B. "The Walking Dead", "Fear the Walking Dead") und habe eine Liste, die es noch zu überprüfen gilt ("Bones" ab Staffel 10, "The Big Bang Theory" ab Staffel 9, "Vampire Diaries" ab Staffel 6 usw.) und die Zahl der Tippfehler könnte inzwischen bedeutend größer sein als die der richtig geschriebenen Namen.
I prefer correct data. Sometimes the credits of the voice actors are simply confusing, and the only half way reliable source is the site Synchronkartei.de - altough they also got mistakes. It is even more confusing, if the credits list a voice actor not know by Synchronkartei and not even known by Google. There were several such names listed at "Orange is the new Black". So I had no choice than to contact the studio of the synchronization. The first few "riddles" are solved, for the rest I have to wait until next year. Good experiences so far with that studio, and hopefully the one of "Grey's Anatomy" is also willing to answer my question of this totally unknown speaker credited in one episode.
Ich bevorzuge korrekte Daten. Manchmal jedoch sind die Credits der Synchronsprecher einfach verwirrend, und die einzige halbwegs zuverlässige Quelle ist die Seite Synchronkartei.de - obwohl auch diese manchmal Fehler enthält. Noch verwirrender wird es, wenn ein Sprecher in den Credits steht, den Synchronkartei nicht kennt und nicht einmal Google. Mehrere solcher Namen waren bei "Orange is the new Black" zu finden. So hatte ich keine Wahl, als das Synchron-Studio zu kontaktierten. Die ersten paar dieser "Rätsel" sind gelöst, für den Rest muß ich bis nächstes Jahr warten. Gute Erfahrungen mit diesem Studio, und hoffentlich ist das von "Grey's Anatomy" genau so hilfsbereit, mir die Frage über einen komplett unbekannten Sprecher zu beantworten, der in einer Episode aufgeführt ist.
It has allready been a lot of work with the profiles I recognized, it will be more with the ones I only presume so far and it will become an unimaginable load of work if I check all releases since 2015 in my collection. I even don't want to imagine the variations of the spellings of all of the names!
Es war schon eine Menge Arbeit mit den Profilen, die mir aufgefallen sind, es wird noch mehr mit denjenigen, bei denen ich es bisher nur vermute, und es wird eine unvorstellbare Ladung an Arbeit wenn ich alle DVDs/BluRays in meiner Sammlung überprüfe, die seit 2015 veröffentlicht wurde. Ich mag mir all die Variationen der Schreibweisen all dieser Namen nicht einmal vorstellen!
During an endless correspondence with Synchronkartei I asked if they couldn't add all those misspellings to their database they way we do as "credited as". But I had to learn that they would have troubles then with the speakers themselves. They only want to be listed with the name(s) they do business under. Sometimes there are 2 or 3 variations but definitely not more. For some it is the name before and after the marriage but that's all. So if there wasn't the Synchronkartei, I only could ask the studios whenever I find a wronlgy spelled name.
Während des Schriftverkehrs mit der Synchronkartei fragte ich, ob die nicht auch die falschen Schreibweisen in ihrer Datenbank aufnehmen könnte, so wie wir eben als "credited as". Doch ich mußte lernen, daß die dann Probleme mit den Sprechern selbst kriegen. Diese möchten nur unter dem/den Namen aufgeführt werden, under dem/denen sie firmieren. Manchmal sind es 2 oder 3 Varianten, aber definitiv nicht mehr. Bei manchen ist es der Namen vor und nach der Heirat, aber damit hat es sich. Und wenn es die Synchronkartei nicht häfe, müßte ich jedes Mal die Studios fragen, wenn ich auf einen falsch geschriebenen Namen stoße.
Now it is a little bit of mathematics and I hope you understand my suggestion: Even if all the profiles of German releases since 2015 where the voice actors are credited would be complete, it is an unimaginable work to count all the variations of just one single name as several voice actors are present in countless movies and series.
Jetzt geht es etwas um die Mathematik und ich hoffe, ihr versteht meinen Vorschlag: Selbst wenn all die Profile Deutscher Releases seit 2015, bei denen die Synchronsprecher in den Credits stehen, vollständig wären, ist es eine unvorstellbare Arbeit, all die Varianten nur eines einzigen Namens zu zählen, da etliche Synchronsprecher in unzähligen Filmen und Serien präsent sind.
I don't know the number of regulary working voice actors but according to my personal experiences, there are several hundreds if not several thousands. And now imagine the time neccessary to prove the counts of the variations of only one of them!
Ich kenne nicht die Anzal der regelmäßig arbeiteten Synchronsprecher doch nach meiner persönlichen Erfahrung sind es Hunderte wenn nicht sogar Tausende. Und nun stellt Euch nur einmal die Zeit vor, die notwendig ist, um die Anzal all der Varianten nur eines einzigen Sprechers zu bestätigen!
As we don't have that "bad luck" that the voice actors could cause troubles for us, according to our rules even the worst spelling of a name could become the common name. Impossible to find a headshot then, but as soon as this name is defined, it might change! As there are actually about 20.000 (!) releases every year in Germany, the number of counts quite sure would change nearly every single week if not every single day!
Da wir nicht das "Pech" haben, daß wir Probleme mit den Synchronsprechern bekommen können, könnte nach unseren Regeln also selbst die übelste Schreibweise eines Sprechers zu dessen "Common Name" werden. Dann ist es zwar unmöglich, ein Foto zu finden, doch sobald dieser Name definiert ist, kann er sich auch schon wieder ändern! Da es in Deutschland aktuell etwa 20.000 (!) Releases jedes Jahr gibt, würde sich auch die Anzahl der Variationen wöchentlich ändern, wenn nicht sogar täglich!
And who ever has started a thread to define a common name knows how long this definition lasts under regular circumstances. But those ordinary voice actors totally change the circumstances as they appear in so many more profiles.
Und wer schon einmal einen Thread gestartet hat, um einen "Common Name" zu definieren, der weiß, wie lange diese Definition schon unter normalen Umständen dauert. Doch diese gewöhnlichen Synchronsprecher verändern die Umstände total, da sie in so viel mehr Profilen erscheinen.
So the whole story above lead me to the idea to define the common name of those voice actors on a different way, no matter if they are also active as actors: The Synchronkartei lists the name(s) the voice actors do business under. In my opinion, if there is only one name, this should become our common name, too, as then we are able to find the voice actors there, via Google or any other search engine. If they do business under more than one name, then only the counts of those variations are relevant to chose a common name (e. g. "Klaus-Dieter Klebsch" and "K. Dieter Klebsch"). All misspelled variations should simply be ignored. This way the time to prove the counts is reduced to a minimum and the common name could be defined within a much shorter time - and doesn't need to be checked after every new release!
Die ganze Geschichte oberhalb führte mich zu der Idee, die "Common Names" der Synchronsprecher auf andere Weise zu definieren, ganz egal, ob diese auch als Schauspieler aktiv sind: Die Synchronkartei listet den/die Namen, unter dem die Synchronsprecher firmieren. Meiner Meinung nach, wenn sie dies nur unter einem Namen tun, sollte dieser auch unser "Common Name" werden, da wir dann die Sprecher dort, über Google oder jede andere Suchmaschine finden können. Wenn sie unter mehreren Namen firmieren, dann sollten nur die Counts dieser Variationen gezählt werden, um den "Common Name" festzulegen (e. g. "Klaus-Dieter Klebsch" and "K. Dieter Klebsch"). Alle falsch geschriebenen Varianten sollten wir einfach ignorieren. Auf diesem Weg würde die Zeit, um die Anzahl der Schreibweisen zu bestätigen, auf ein Minimum reduziert und der "Common Name" könnte innerhalb viel kürzerer Zeit definiert werden - und müßte nicht nach jeden neuen Release überprüft werden!
If you think my idea is bad and we should handle the voice actors the same way we do it with all others to find a common name, I have to counter with some numbers: Just think about one research for an actor present in 84 profiles with 287 credits to prove the counts (84 x 287 = 6888 movies/episodes to check the credits) and then imagine that is is only one of 30 voice actors of just one series (6888x 30 = 206.640). And when after half a year of checks and proves the names of all 30 are defined, 20 new releases become part of our database which change "only" the numbers of half of the voice actors! A neverending story begins! No more time to watch, too much time neccessary to prove counts!
Wenn ihr nun denkt, meine Idee sei schlecht und wir sollten die Synchronsprecher auf dem selben Weg behandeln, mit dem wir die "Common Names" aller anderen finden, muß ich mit ein paar Zahlen kontern: Denkt nur einmal über die Nachforschungen für einen Sprecher nach, der in 84 Profilen mit 287 Counts vertreten ist, um die Counts zu bestätigen (84 x 287 = 6888 Filme/Episoden, um die Counts zu überprüfen) und stellt euch dann vor, daß dieser nur einer von 30 Sprechern nur einer Serie ist (6888x 30 = 206.640). Und wenn nach einem halben Jahr and Überprüfung und Bestätigung die Namen aller 30 definiert sind, werden 20 neue Releases Bestandteil unserer Datenbank, welche "nur" die Hälfte der Zahlen unserer Synchronsprecher verändern! Eine unendliche Geschichte beginnt! Keine Zeit mehr zum Schauen, zu viel Zeitaufwand, um Counts zu bestätigen!
As initially mentioned, this is something very special in Germany. At least I don't know if any other country so far has any agreement that voice actors MUST BE SHOWN on every release! But to make this kind of democratic and to show me your opinion in the poll, too, even if you are not from Germany (like most of the users here might be), the poll is once for Germans, once for "the rest of the world (ROTW)".
Wie eingangs erwähnt, ist das etwas ganz Spezielles in Deutschland. Zumindest weiß ich bisher noch von keinem anderen Land, in dem die Synchronsprecher bei jedem Release angezeigt werden MÜSSEN! Doch um demokratisch zu bleiben und um mir eure Meinung mitzuteilen, auch wenn ihr nicht aus Deutschland seid (wie es vermutliche die meisten Nutzer hier sind), gibt es den Poll einmal für Deutsche und einmal für "den Rest der Welt".
For any further ideas to handle this situation, which exists for 8 years meanwhile but has not completely arrived at our DVDProfiler, leave a comment. English and German are welcome!
Für weitere Ideen, um mit der Situation umzugehen, die inzwischen zwar seit 8 Jahren existiert aber noch nicht komplett bei DVDProfiler angekommen ist, hinterlasse einen Kommentar. Englisch und Deutsch sind willkommen! | Posted: Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 9060 | | Well, it might be possible to slow down VLC to frame-by-frame speed, I never tried that. Why? There timeline is not that real. So e. g. an episode has 41.26 Min. I move the mouse arrow to the end of the timeline, see kind of "41.20" and click. And VLC never moves to the time I saw before my click but 10 - 20 seconds earlier. And just to imagine how long a second is watching it frame-by-frame and then how long 20 - 30 seconds are.... before I reach the credits after the end credits.
I am totally satisfied that the ZOOM Player doesn't need to slow down. All works fine and I am nearly done with the (first) series | Posted: Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 5537 | | And another unconventional experience....
I always thought that at least all discs of one season should have been created with the same kind of "structure". Oh, what a fail!
From the first disc of Season 5 I could get all the data of the voice actors with slowing down the speed to 1/2 - but no matter how slow I did it from Disc 2 to the rest of the season: The slides with the voice actors were shown sooo fast that I even wasn't able to click on pause within that short time.
My last post before I wrote when I started Season 3. Season 4 than brought the next "adventure": Playable with Leawo, but VLC only showed me a grey screen instead of the menu. And Leawo was as fast as always, not able to show me what I needed to see.
So I had no choice than to search for another player, willing to try one I have never heard before. At least in this case (do I need to say: "so far"? I don't know if it will work for season 6 - 8 then, but so far it did a good job) I was lucky that my first download - only a test version of "ZOOM Player Max" - fullfilled all the promises VLC always makes...
I started the ZOOM with the 2nd disc of Season 5, and it was a very positive surprise that there is a software which plays clips in the same speed a DVD-Player does on TV. I didn't want to get disappointed one more time, and all my hope was with this software. So after finishing the 5th season, I gave the 4th one a try and it was very satisfying to see the menu now + got shown the slides with the voice actors not only in a good speed but with enough time to click on PAUSE to write down all the names before going on to the next slide.
The final info might be a shock for all German collectors:
In 2015 (other sources say 2018) there was installed kind of a rule that every release (movies, series, even documentaries) has to show the german speakers. When I got sick of all those unexplainable technical problems I checked out some existing profiles... and recognized what I expected: We have countless profiles of (german) discs released since this rule was installed - and only a very small part of them (I'd like to say < 3 %) so far has any german speaker listed in the profile. My check only included some series... so when I am done with the rest of "Grey's Anatomy", the next "job" will be three complete series with totally 27 seasons and 569 episodes... and they are just the beginning. This new rule enhanced the available data for countless profiles... and the work adding all those speakers to every single episode, movie and documentary....
No more time for watching, to much work with filling profiles with missing data....^^ | Posted: Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 5537 | | It seems that someone from VLC read this thread...^^
Today I got an update for the VLC Player and now the problem is solved - at least for DVDs. I am curious about the next time I get seasons on BluRay. Missing the last two of Gomorrha, and the two I did so far were hell of a job | Posted: Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 5537 | | For a couple of years meanwhile DVDs have to show their German speakers (in Germany for sure), and this happens in the "titles after the end titles". But on Computer it's a horrible job to get them.
I did it with VLC-Player and with Leawo BluRay-Player but the problem remains the same!
Usually those titles are kind of a dia show of 3 pictures. The first one nearly always is shown without any problem but all further.... I am suddenly back in the menue. I tried to slow down the speed to 1/2, 1/3 or even 1/5 and very sometimes this works - if I am lucky. But there is no guarantee...
So actually I am a little bit frustrated as I would like to add this (missing) data to 7 seasons of a TV Show. One season I got done, and this was nearly no problem. Possivle the structure of the DVD-System was different, I don't know. Starting with Ep. 1 of the next season, I got to see the first page of the spearkers and no matter how slow I played, the rest remained hidden.
Any idea which software (freeware) could handle this without any drama?
The only alternative solution would be to watch them on TV, write down the speakers to paper and then add them on PC into profiler. But 7 seasons with 20+ episodes each makes that too much work.
I only can hope that someone knows a good software or has had the problem himself and found a practicable solution? | Posted: Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 5537 | |
|
| Invelos Forums->Posts by Magmadrag |
Page:
1 Previous Next
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |